MENJAWAB PERTANYAAN - English

100% GOOD (2 votes)DijawabPertanyaan Bahasa
Why is such a construction used here?

Hello everyone! I have been reading The Lord of the Rings and found there this sentence: "Indeed, in one corner some of the young Tooks and Brandybucks, supposing Uncle Bilbo to have finished (since he had plainly said all that was necessary), now... began a merry dance-tune". Can you, please, explain why the construction "supposing he to have finished" is used here? Is that Present Perfect or something?

PS: Uncover free English lessons: Free lesson: CONJUNCTIONS → Correlative Conjunctions — Australia Timeline — Although VS Even though — Words ending with the suffix less

MENJAWAB PERTANYAAN

AussieInBg profile picture AussieInBgMarch 2021

It’s a very formal construction and quite archaic today. It was even formal when Tolkien had first written it! Your sentence means ”Indeed, in one corner there are some of the young Tooks and Brandybucks. Let us assume that Uncle Bilbo has finished. Now... began a merry dance-tune”.

Grammatically, it is a past unreal conditional form along the lines of ”If he were to have finished then we could assume that Bilbo would also be able to participate”. So, it’s not exactly a standard present perfect form.

Don’t worry too much about this ”supposing he to have finished” grammatical form unless your level of English is somewhere at least at a very good C1 or low C2 level and you are into classical 18th or 19th Century British literature. You would even completely confuse most native English speakers, particularly American English speakers, if you ever tried to use it smile.gif

  • AussieInBg profile picture AussieInBgMarch 2021
    @Livaria My pleasure! Be a bit careful with some of the grammatical constructions in literature more than about 50 years old. English, for better or worse, has evolved since then. Nevertheless, it’s clear that you have actually been reading the book rather than just ”talking about reading it”

    @vincent My pleasure
  • vincent profile picture vincentMarch 2021
    Aussie, you are very helpful and your answers are so complete and accurate. Thanks 🙏🏻 💪🏻😊
  • Lirava profile picture LiravaMarch 2021
    Thank you a lot for such a detailed answer! It is very helpful and interesting information, I didn’t even know that this case is so unusual!
Marie298 profile picture Marie298April 2021
I would only add to what has been said already that the far simpler way this would be written or said today is ”supposing that Uncle Bilbo had finished...”.
  • Lirava profile picture LiravaApril 2021
    @AussieInBg The interesting fact is that I’m a native Russian speaker and my language has very complicated grammar with a lot of exceptions, however, it’s not like I have ever been confused about the use of my grammar. Still, English has much simpler grammar but is sometimes confusing even for native speakers) Such a paradox I guess that’s because Russian language is very flexible with the rules and English, on the contrary, has very strict rules.

    You did an amazing job to explain me that case! I am very grateful.
  • AussieInBg profile picture AussieInBgApril 2021
    @Lirava Pleasure!

    I had to give a more expanded explanation for my choice of answer in order to demonstrate that the offered alternative was most likely wrong. It is arrogant and presumptive to suggest that something is incorrect without offering an explanation.

    When choosing grammar, it is always important to look at everything in its full context. I had actually Duckduckgoed your text snippet to look at it in proper context so that I would give an accurate answer.

    I think that many people get the wrong idea about English grammar, thinking that English grammar is somehow ”easy” after what they might have seen at an A2, or even B1, level. For sure it’s relatively easy to get communicative and quite accurate at a functional social level quicker than most other languages. After all, there is no gender of nouns like in many languages, no massive amount of learning the declination of verbs or even endless noun case endings such as in Russian or German.

    However, later on things get more complicated. Grammatical structures convey more subtlety, there are huge gaps in how language - including grammar - is used formally and informally and then there is the matter of different dialects such as British English and American English. It’s not simply a matter of the spelling ”color” in American English and ”colour” in British English!

    I’m still learning a lot about English myself. And I’m supposed to be a native speaker of English
  • Lirava profile picture LiravaApril 2021
    @AussieInBg
    Wow... That’s just amazing how complicated it is... And that is so interesting 0_O I really appreciate that I have such an amazing opportunity to see the depth of English grammar! I have read your whole commentary with wide eyes... The English language is tricky but it’s hard to explain how I like to understand all these difficult moments. That’s priceless. Thank you a lot for such a DETAILED answer! I guess I need some time to understand all this information, it sounds like a true academic article to me

    @Marie298 Thank you a lot for your participation in our investigation, too I appreciate every answer.